濒死体验吧 关注:8,152贴子:61,660
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关于一则盲人濒死分辨颜色的争议案例!

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网络上有篇文章《濒死体验是不是大脑产生的幻觉》(摘录如下)
“从出生起就失明的盲人 (congenitally blind) 在濒死体验中可以清楚地看到自己周围的事物。Dr. Kenneth Ring,康涅狄格大学教授,研究了31例从出生起就失明的盲人的濒死体验。其中比较著名的一例是Vicki Umipeg,她向Ring描述了自己的濒死体验,她清晰地描述了自己的意识出体之后,看到一名医生和一名护士正在治疗她的身体,她正确的描述了自己所佩戴的两个戒指的颜色和图案形状,并且她说这次体验是她有生以来第一次经历到光线和视觉的体验。她在病房待了一会,便从房顶穿过,到了医院大楼的上方,并同时听到美妙的音乐,见到光一样的生命体,她发现自己也变成了光一样的生命体,而这种光传递的是无尽的爱。”
从这篇文章看,先天失明的盲人,既然还能分辨颜色,灵魂出体虽然诸根具足,但会受自己的知见(观念)的约束。因此天生盲人是没有颜色观念的,这点医学界早有定论,先天盲人连梦境都没有颜色的概念,这颜色是一种概念法,如同一个水果,你从来没有见过,就是出体看到该水果,你同样叫不出他的名字,因为这个概念法,你根本就不知道,颜色也是如此,虽然能看到,但根本不能分辨是什么颜色!又如一个从没有见过翡翠的人,你跟他说把翡翠色瓶子拿过来,他能分辨吗?显然不能,这里的盲人也是如此,所以我个人觉得,这案例不真实!


IP属地:江苏1楼2017-05-04 18:55回复
    搜索“《濒死体验是不是大脑产生的幻觉》”,在搜索出的结果中,有个是知乎网,在你的那些内容下面,有个原文章内容出处。
    你翻译看看是什么意思。
    -------------------------------------------
    By Kevin Williams
    Vicki Umipeg, a forty-five year old blind woman, was just one of the more than thirty persons that Dr. Kenneth Ring and Sharon Cooper interviewed at length during a two-year study just completed concerning near-death experiences of the blind. The results of their study appear in their newest book Mindsight. Vicki was born blind, her optic nerve having been completely destroyed at birth because of an excess of oxygen she received in the incubator. Yet, she appears to have been able to see during her NDE. Her story is a particularly clear instance of how NDEs of the congenitally blind can unfold in precisely the same way as do those of sighted persons. As you will see, apart from the fact that Vicki was not able to discern color during her experience, the account of her NDE is absolutely indistingui***le from those with intact visual systems. The following is an excerpt from Dr. Ring's latest book reprinted by permission.
    Vicki told Dr. Ring she found herself floating above her body in the emergency room of a hospital following an automobile accident. She was aware of being up near the ceiling watching a male doctor and a female nurse working on her body, which she viewed from her elevated position. Vicki has a clear recollection of how she came to the realization that this was her own body below her. The following is her experience.
    "I knew it was me ... I was pretty thin then. I was quite tall and thin at that point. And I recognized at first that it was a body, but I didn't even know that it was mine initially.
    "Then I perceived that I was up on the ceiling, and I thought, 'Well, that's kind of weird. What am I doing up here?'
    "I thought, 'Well, this must be me. Am I dead? ...'
    "I just briefly saw this body, and ... I knew that it was mine because I wasn't in mine."
    In addition, she was able to note certain further identifying features indicating that the body she was observing was certainly her own.
    "I think I was wearing the plain gold band on my right ring finger and my father's wedding ring next to it. But my wedding ring I definitely saw ... That was the one I noticed the most because it's most unusual. It has orange blossoms on the corners of it."
    There is something extremely remarkable and provocative about Vicki's recollection of these visual impressions, as a subsequent comment of hers implied.
    "This was," she said, "the only time I could ever relate to seeing and to what light was, because I experienced it."
    She then told them that following her out-of-body episode, which was very fast and fleeting, she found herself going up through the ceilings of the hospital until she was above the roof of the building itself, during which time she had a brief panoramic view of her surroundings. She felt very exhilarated during this ascension and enjoyed tremendously the freedom of movement she was experiencing. She also began to hear sublimely beautiful and exquisitely harmonious music akin to the sound of wind chimes.
    With scarcely a noticeable transition, she then discovered she had been sucked head first into a tube and felt that she was being pulled up into it. The enclosure itself was dark, Vicki said, yet she was aware that she was moving toward light. As she reached the opening of the tube, the music that she had heard earlier seemed to be transformed into hymns and she then "rolled out" to find herself lying on grass.
    She was surrounded by trees and flowers and a vast number of people. She was in a place of tremendous light, and the light, Vicki said, was something you could feel as well as see. Even the people she saw were bright.
    "Everybody there was made of light. And I was made of light. What the light conveyed was love. There was love everywhere. It was like love came from the grass, love came from the birds, love came from the trees."
    Vicki then becomes aware of specific persons she knew in life who are welcoming her to this place. There are five of them. Debby and Diane were Vicki's blind schoolmates, who had died years before, at ages 11 and 6, respectively.
    In life, they had both been profoundly retarded as well as blind, but here they appeared bright and beautiful, healthy and vitally alive.
    And no longer children, but, as Vicki phrased it, "in their prime."
    In addition, Vicki reports seeing two of her childhood caretakers, a couple named Mr. and Mrs. Zilk, both of whom had also previously died. Finally, there was Vicki's grandmother - who had essentially raised Vicki and who had died just two years before this incident. In these encounters, no actual words were exchanged, Vicki says, but only feelings - feelings of love and welcome.
    In the midst of this rapture, Vicki is suddenly overcome with a sense of total knowledge.
    "I had a feeling like I knew everything ... and like everything made sense. I just knew that this was where ... this place was where I would find the answers to all the questions about life, and about the planets, and about God, and about everything ... It's like the place was the knowing."
    As these revelations are unfolding, Vicki notices that now next to her is a figure whose radiance is far greater than the illumination of any of the persons she has so far encountered. Immediately, she recognizes this being to be Jesus. He greets her tenderly, while she conveys her excitement to him about her newfound omniscience and her joy at being there with him.
    Telepathically, he communicates to her.
    "Isn't it wonderful? Everything is beautiful here, and it fits together. And you'll find that. But you can't stay here now. It's not your time to be here yet and you have to go back."
    Vicki reacts, understandably enough, with extreme disappointment and protests vehemently.
    "No, I want to stay with you."
    But the being reassures her that she will come back, but for now, she "has to go back and learn and teach more about loving and forgiving."
    Still resistant, however, Vicki then learns that she also needs to go back to have her children. With that, Vicki, who was then childless but who "desperately wanted" to have children (and who has since given birth to three) becomes almost eager to return and finally consents.
    However, before Vicki can leave, the being says to her, in these exact words, "But first, watch this."
    And what Vicki then sees is "everything from my birth" in a complete panoramic review of her life, and as she watches, the being gently comments to help her understand the significance of her actions and their repercussions.
    The last thing Vicki remembers, once the life review has been completed, are the words, "You have to leave now."
    Then she experiences "a sickening thud" like a roller-coaster going backwards, and finds herself back in her body.
    Such reports, replete with visual imagery, were the rule, not the exception, among Ring and Cooper's blind respondents. Altogether, 80% of their entire sample claimed some visual perception during their near-death or out-of-body encounters. Although Vicki's was unusual with respect to the degree of detail, it was hardly unique in their sample.
    Sometimes the initial onset of visual perception of the physical world is disorienting and even disturbing to the blind. This was true for Vicki, for example, who said:
    I had a hard time relating to it (i.e., seeing). I had a real difficult time relating to it because I've never experienced it. And it was something very foreign to me ... Let's see, how can I put it into words? It was like hearing words and not being able to understand them, but knowing that they were words. And before you'd never heard anything. But it was something new, something you'd not been able to previously attach any meaning to.
    "Death is no more than passing from one room into another. But there's a difference for me, you know. Because in that other room I shall be able to see." - Helen Keller


    IP属地:广东3楼2017-05-04 21:20
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      怎么给删了二楼?


      IP属地:广东4楼2017-05-04 21:23
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        吧里另一贴的内容:
        1.3 邂逅故友,重见亲人
        许多人都描述了在濒死体验的过程中看到了已经死去的亲人或者朋友。
        例如,在肯耐思•瑞恩教授的新书《Mindsight》中,讲述了一位叫韦奇•阿米派格的45岁妇女的濒死体验。这位妇女是天生的盲人,所以在她的经历中,她不能分辨颜色( 因为她天生就没有颜色的概念),但其它的描述却和其他濒死体验者并无太大的不同。开始时她的灵魂离开了身体,漂浮在天花板上,她看到了自己的身体,甚至看到了她戴在手上的三只戒指。然后她飘出了天花板,飘到了整栋建筑的上方,接着,她被吸进了一个长长的隧道,她以极快的速度穿过了隧道,在隧道的尽头是广大而又明亮的光,她听到了音乐,然后滚到了一片草地上。她描述道,她的周围是草地,树木,和很多人,所有的东西,包括她自己都是用明亮的光作成的,这个地方充满着光,而在光中,她感到了无尽的爱。接着有五个人走过来欢迎她,其中有两个是她当年在盲人学校的同学,她们在很多年前,分别是十一岁和六岁的时候就已经去世了。这两个同学在生前不仅是盲人,而且还是弱智儿童,但是现在她们看起来是如此地美丽、聪慧和健康,并且已经不是孩子了。阿米派格还看见了当年在她小时候照看自己的一对夫妇,这对夫妇也早在很多年前就去世了。最后她看见了她去世了的祖母。她们用感觉,而不是语言,进行了交流。


        IP属地:广东5楼2017-05-04 21:24
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          出现两个版本了。


          IP属地:广东6楼2017-05-04 21:25
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            “As you will see, apart from the fact that Vicki was not able to discern color during her experience”----同样的你能看到,除去Vicki在她的体验期间不能辨别颜色的事实。
            ----------------------------------------------
            你的版本有些问题。


            IP属地:广东7楼2017-05-05 08:59
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              题外话:
              “灵魂出体虽然诸根具足,但会受自己的知见(观念)的约束”--虽然很多情况下是这样,但,不是绝对都是这样。你的概念法用在“人”上面是对的,但如果用在“灵魂”上面是会犯错的。因为,如果有必要,灵界是可以不留痕迹的让当事人懂得、知道。
              比如,魏斯的催眠案例里面,当事人可以说出前世的年份。还有,小小木白的帖子“盲人死后看到医院里的真实情景”里--我还读到过,近视眼死后不用眼睛就能看到很清楚的东西,色盲死后能看到颜色,苏醒之后准确无误的把颜色描述出来(苏醒之后又变成色盲)。


              IP属地:广东8楼2017-05-05 09:32
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                怎么知乎网上的话跟你的一模一样啊?是你啊?
                昨天我都没看下面的内容。


                IP属地:广东9楼2017-05-05 14:39
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                  ,你一直认为灵魂受限于今生认识的约束,想来是固化于灵魂在肉身阶段是一种个体的、孤独的行为,而忽略了其身后灵魂伙伴以及灵界的身影。


                  IP属地:广东10楼2017-05-06 13:54
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                    能看到颜色他也不认识这就是颜色,无法认知因为从来没看过见到也不认识


                    IP属地:广东来自Android客户端13楼2019-12-19 22:40
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                      不知道有没有人看过太傻天书,


                      来自Android客户端14楼2019-12-20 00:41
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                        假设有外星人绑架你到他们的飞船做手术然后你灵魂出窍了,请问你能描述出来你看到的是谁旁边的是什么工具和材料吗?就像盲人根本就没见过颜色工具一样,他怎么能说的那么详细?


                        IP属地:浙江15楼2020-08-06 14:18
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